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Congress has Shelved Cap & Trade, but President Obama has Not
November 22, 2010
Mike Carey, President of American Council for Affordable and Reliable Energy, joins Mike Siegel for an interview on the Boss Business Brief. Congress has shelved Cap & Trade but that does not mean it is over. Will President Obama attempt to force it through even if it costs him a second term? What will it mean for businesses?
Transcript:
Siegel: Well, folks, welcome back in. Good to have you with us. Mike Siegel here at the BOSS Business Brief as we get back into the conversation. We know about the fact that cap and trade has gone away for a while any way, but we want to talk about the future of energy and environmental policy and how that can effect small business, which could be a huge impact and huge effect with regard to the possibility of energy rationing and then taxation policy using federal agencies. That has been talked about in the past. We have avoided it so far and the question is, will that come back to haunt us? Mike Carey is president for the American Council for Affordable and Reliable Energy. Mr. Carey, good to have you with us. How are you today?
Carey: It is great to be with you.
Siegel: Let's talk about this. Cap and trade is out of the way for now. I presume there is no possibility that a lame duck congress with democrat majorities would pass anything along those lines, am I correct?
Carey: You know, I mean, yes, I would think that that would be the case, but what you s till have to be concerned about is that even though you don't have the cap and trade bill actually in place, since it never made it to the senate and it looks unlikely that it would, I think that folks still have to be very concerned that the federal government and their regulations of greenhouse gasses is continuing. The Obama agenda is being pushed through by those means, and I think that that is what has to have a lot of people concerned.
Siegel: Are we talking about executive orders?
Carey: Well, what they have actually done is under the Endangerment Finding, they are trying to regulate greenhouse gasses as part of the Clean Air Act. Once you do that, you essentially have a cap and trade mechanism even though there hasn't been a, not really cap and trade but you will have a cap on the carbon which will still cost consumers and small business and large manufacturers a tremendous amount of dollars. So, you are still going to have that in play and unless this next congress takes up the opportunity that they have to stop some of this nonsense, we could still go down the path of having carbon taxes on it.
Siegel: Now, there we go back to the point. Let's talk about that, because I have been told that Al Gore has a great interest in this and could wind up with his group making billions because of these carbon taxes that could be created, or carbon trading if you will from one firm to another. If these carbon taxes got into place as a matter of policy…. First question would be, congress would have to approve that, would they not? The taxes couldn't be created by the executive branch?
Carey: Well, that tis exactly right, but when you start regulating greenhouse gasses…that is when you start regulating them under the Clean Air Act and put that into any type of cost of construction of any facility, you will find that there will have to be a large cost and utilities will have to find some way to get around the fact that they will not be able to meet the standard to produce their power. So, all bets are off as to what would happen. The likely scenario would be that there would have to be put in p lace some type of trading scheme, which is what we fought in this congress and it is something that I think most people are very concerned about because there is no true way to lessen the amount of carbon footprint of the power producing facility with right now the carbon sequestration technology that is out there. The easiest way, which the environmentalist and I think this administration would like to see, is just to shut the plants down.
Siegel: Now, if this were to happen, and we talked about it when cap and trade was even being considered earlier when John Carey and Chuck Schumer and others were trying to get it through, it has a huge impact on small business, does it not? Both in terms of rationing and in terms of tax policy?
Transcript:
Siegel: Well, folks, welcome back in. Good to have you with us. Mike Siegel here at the BOSS Business Brief as we get back into the conversation. We know about the fact that cap and trade has gone away for a while any way, but we want to talk about the future of energy and environmental policy and how that can effect small business, which could be a huge impact and huge effect with regard to the possibility of energy rationing and then taxation policy using federal agencies. That has been talked about in the past. We have avoided it so far and the question is, will that come back to haunt us? Mike Carey is president for the American Council for Affordable and Reliable Energy. Mr. Carey, good to have you with us. How are you today?
Carey: It is great to be with you.
Siegel: Let's talk about this. Cap and trade is out of the way for now. I presume there is no possibility that a lame duck congress with democrat majorities would pass anything along those lines, am I correct?
Carey: You know, I mean, yes, I would think that that would be the case, but what you s till have to be concerned about is that even though you don't have the cap and trade bill actually in place, since it never made it to the senate and it looks unlikely that it would, I think that folks still have to be very concerned that the federal government and their regulations of greenhouse gasses is continuing. The Obama agenda is being pushed through by those means, and I think that that is what has to have a lot of people concerned.
Siegel: Are we talking about executive orders?
Carey: Well, what they have actually done is under the Endangerment Finding, they are trying to regulate greenhouse gasses as part of the Clean Air Act. Once you do that, you essentially have a cap and trade mechanism even though there hasn't been a, not really cap and trade but you will have a cap on the carbon which will still cost consumers and small business and large manufacturers a tremendous amount of dollars. So, you are still going to have that in play and unless this next congress takes up the opportunity that they have to stop some of this nonsense, we could still go down the path of having carbon taxes on it.
Siegel: Now, there we go back to the point. Let's talk about that, because I have been told that Al Gore has a great interest in this and could wind up with his group making billions because of these carbon taxes that could be created, or carbon trading if you will from one firm to another. If these carbon taxes got into place as a matter of policy…. First question would be, congress would have to approve that, would they not? The taxes couldn't be created by the executive branch?
Carey: Well, that tis exactly right, but when you start regulating greenhouse gasses…that is when you start regulating them under the Clean Air Act and put that into any type of cost of construction of any facility, you will find that there will have to be a large cost and utilities will have to find some way to get around the fact that they will not be able to meet the standard to produce their power. So, all bets are off as to what would happen. The likely scenario would be that there would have to be put in p lace some type of trading scheme, which is what we fought in this congress and it is something that I think most people are very concerned about because there is no true way to lessen the amount of carbon footprint of the power producing facility with right now the carbon sequestration technology that is out there. The easiest way, which the environmentalist and I think this administration would like to see, is just to shut the plants down.
Siegel: Now, if this were to happen, and we talked about it when cap and trade was even being considered earlier when John Carey and Chuck Schumer and others were trying to get it through, it has a huge impact on small business, does it not? Both in terms of rationing and in terms of tax policy?
